Russian President Vladimir Putin and Zimbabwean President Emerson Mnangagwa shared a light moment during a heated discussion on nuclear diplomacy on Friday, as they talked about addressing the real and metaphorical “hyenas” threatening their nations.

At the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF) plenary session, political scientist Sergey Karaganov suggested that Putin revise Russia’s nuclear doctrine to permit nuclear retaliation against countries attacking Russia with conventional weapons.

With several Western countries – including the US, France, and Germany – recently authorizing Kiev to use their missiles for long-range strikes on Russian soil, Karaganov contended that these nations have become complacent and need a reminder of Russia’s nuclear strength.

“They have gone mad, especially the Europeans,” he told Putin. “It’s how animals behave. If there is a herd of hyenas or wild dogs and you’ve got a stick, you can keep them at bay. But there’s a high chance that they will tear your clothes, and if you get tired they will bite you to death. If you can kill a couple of them then they will disperse.”

“President Mnangagwa knows about the behavior of hyenas,” Karaganov added, then asked the Zimbabwean leader: “Do you agree Mr. President, that this is how you deal with hyenas?”

“We do have lots of hyenas in Zimbabwe, but we keep them in the national parks,” Mnangagwa replied. “We have no problems with them, but they breed a lot, and if there is anybody who wants them, we are ready to donate,” he added, prompting laughter from the audience.

“Well we’ve got hyenas of our own in Europe,” Putin responded.

Russia’s nuclear doctrine, unchanged since 2010, permits the use of atomic weapons if Russia faces a nuclear first strike or if the state’s existence is threatened by either nuclear or conventional weapons.

“I do not believe that it is the case now,” Putin stated, adding that Russia “needs no nuclear weapons to achieve victory” in Ukraine. However, he mentioned that modifications to Russia’s nuclear doctrine “are not ruled out.”